Barak Berkowitz ([info]barakb25) wrote in [info]lj_biz,
2007-06-20 19:12:00
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goals and guidelines

As promised, I want to clarify any confusion there may have been about our policies regarding your content on LiveJournal.

Our number one goal is to encourage and promote a free and open community. We will only intervene to the extent needed to avoid the site being used as a vehicle for illegal activities. The policies are simple.

  • We do not review content until it is reported to us.

  • With regards to illegal or harmful content, our policies are:

    • No illegal content. There is little content that is truly illegal in the United States but it is an important note that SOME content does violate the laws of the United States where our data is kept. Child pornography is a clear example.

    • No content that is created to plan, encourage, or advocate hate crimes, the abuse of children, or rape. I understand that there may be some that believe that the advocacy of these things may be valid discussion, but we simply do not have an interest in hosting this type of content.

    • No content which is meant to plan, solicit the commission of, seek customers for, or provide instructions for serious illegal activities which could cause harm to others.

  • Political, philosophical, religious and artistic discussion is encouraged and protected as long as it does not violate any of the guidelines listed above.


Your profile is part of your journal. If your profile, taken as a whole, breaks these policies, we will treat it the same as if it were in an entry or comment. For years, we have had these policies, but there were aspects of them that were not as clear as desired. We are making no major policy changes, we have made no changes to the TOS, and we do not anticipate making any changes in the future.

We are also reviewing our internal procedures and the communications we use to explain those procedures. We will also work on ways to make it easier for the community to report abusive or offensive content. I hope this makes things a lot clearer for everyone.

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[info]shaebay

June 21 2007, 02:16:03 UTC 4 years ago

Hopefully it will make the whole LJ system run a bit smoother, yeah?

[info]photosinensis

June 21 2007, 02:16:22 UTC 4 years ago

What about role playing journals, where there is obviously no intent to actually do any illegal activity, but illegal activity may be a part of what the character is? Will a standard "This journal is not a real journal, but a part of [info]roleplaygame," be enough to clarify this? After all, Strikethrough got at least three RP journals based on the fact that the characters' interests and activities were illegal in real life.

[info]roaring

June 21 2007, 02:20:04 UTC 4 years ago

No, it won't. A few celebrity RP journals have gotten deleted because they "impersonated" someone, even if the disclaimer was there. This happened before ST though.

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[info]jedilora

June 21 2007, 02:16:26 UTC 4 years ago

See, that's at least a start at transperancy. Continue, please, and keep us updated.

I still think you really ought to postpone the paid sale until you've given yourselves time to regain the trust. Or possibly do it near the holidays?

[info]photosinensis

June 21 2007, 02:27:52 UTC 4 years ago

Agreed. Cancel the sale. You'll do better business in 6 months, anyway.

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[info]necrotica

June 21 2007, 02:17:35 UTC 4 years ago

Is this what is meant when you said, "Clarifying our policies so that it's easier to understand what kinds of content Six Apart is either unwilling to host or legally unable to host", or is there more to the "unwilling to host" part that has yet to be mentioned?

[info]burr86

June 21 2007, 02:24:26 UTC 4 years ago

Nope, that's it.

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[info]prissi

June 21 2007, 02:18:17 UTC 4 years ago

Thanks for clarifying, Barak. :)

[info]tubofgoodthings

June 21 2007, 02:18:51 UTC 4 years ago

Well, I'm satisfied. Anyone for steak?

[info]inever

June 21 2007, 12:28:16 UTC 4 years ago

lol

[info]roaring

June 21 2007, 02:20:21 UTC 4 years ago

Mehhhhhhhh.

[info]writerspleasure

June 21 2007, 03:50:28 UTC 4 years ago

Fehhhhhhhhh.

Hehhhhhhhhh.

[info]gaulish

4 years ago

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[info]nidoking

June 21 2007, 02:21:47 UTC 4 years ago

Will this verbage become part of the TOS, or will it simply be understood as a guideline for enforcing the written policies? Also, regarding interests, will they be taken in context or will they continue to be considered in the "I like and advocate ~" sense as grounds for these decisions? Will there be any allowance for warnings to remove the offensive (but otherwise legal) content, or will there be zero tolerance?

I think this policy will work pretty well, with user feedback, and think I feel a lot more comfortable about buying a permanent account now.

[info]barakb25

June 21 2007, 02:26:25 UTC 4 years ago

Interests are taken in context of the profile. We no most people who list "rape" as an interest are not saying they like or advocate it, we need to understand the context and we will.

[info]imaria

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[info]harmonatrix

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[info]silken_shadow

June 21 2007, 02:22:19 UTC 4 years ago

No content which is meant to plan, solicit the commission of, seek customers for, or provide instructions for serious illegal activities which could cause harm to others.

And who determines what is "serious?"

Reading this, one could make a case that no content regarding S&M, BDSM, et al would be permitted as it "could cause harm to others," consensual or not and is illegal in many locals.

[info]ex_shattered767

June 21 2007, 03:25:37 UTC 4 years ago

By that definition people who plan a party/invite people to a party where alcohol is planned to be consumed via LJ be reprimanded because, in theory, this could lead to drunk driving?

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[info]vakkotaur

June 21 2007, 02:23:05 UTC 4 years ago

So, does "interests" mean "interests" or does it mean 'like' in your world? Your second to last paragraph only almost addresses this.

[info]burr86

June 21 2007, 02:24:04 UTC 4 years ago

This was addressed in my previous post. :)

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[info]ratphooey

June 21 2007, 02:24:14 UTC 4 years ago

Reported by whom? Members of the LJ community, or any old person? Are you at all concerned with the agenda/motivation of the person/group who report/s content?

I'm sure you are aware that your gross mishandling of this in the past gives no one confidence of your ability to handle it properly in the future.

[info]barakb25

June 21 2007, 02:28:22 UTC 4 years ago

We can not ignore a report becuase of its source. The software will help with this but we need to look at what is reported to us no matter where it comes from.

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[info]jssangel

June 21 2007, 02:26:40 UTC 4 years ago

to clarify you clarification

No illegal content...Child pornography is a clear example.

In the eyes of Six Apart, is Harry Potter Fanfic, featuring an under 18 Harry an example of child pornography?

What about illustrations designed to accompany the same?

(btw - these are yes or no questions)

[info]barakb25

June 21 2007, 02:31:26 UTC 4 years ago

Re: to clarify you clarification

No. Child pornogaphy is fairly well defined by law and I have not seen any reports of it in HP Fanfic.

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[info]stylishbastard

June 21 2007, 02:26:41 UTC 4 years ago

No content that is created to plan, encourage, or advocate hate crimes, the abuse of children, or rape. I understand that there may be some that believe that the advocacy of these things may be valid discussion, but we simply do not have an interest in hosting this type of content.

Think you'll have to define 'encourage'.

Am I encouraging hate crimes if I use my journal to express how I think people with blonde hair should be deported/drop dead?
What if I cheerfully link to a news story that describes the mugging of someone with blonde hair?

By the sounds of it, there will still be issues with fandom. I think you're going to struggle with this policy, particularly with regards to the non-English speaking segments of LJ. Then again, they'll hardly impact on what English-language advertisers think. Not that I'm being cynical :)

[info]hoshi3

June 21 2007, 02:34:46 UTC 4 years ago

What if I cheerfully link to a news story that describes the mugging of someone with blonde hair?

That made me lol.

[info]imaria

4 years ago

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[info]huushiita

June 21 2007, 02:27:48 UTC 4 years ago

I have to admit the shakiness in lj is beginning to go away. Thank you, lj, and thank you Mr. Barak for restoring faith in a service I've come to love and be faithful to since 2001!

Just next time, if there is such a circumstance again, do clarify what is going on since MASS PANIC is not fun to go through.

Hey, I said I wasn't gonna get a perm. account. Go figure, I'm easily swayed. :p

[info]tallblue

June 21 2007, 02:32:40 UTC 4 years ago

Thank you for the update! And I think the TOS enforced will be a great thing,

[info]tallblue

June 21 2007, 02:34:16 UTC 4 years ago

I hope you do not cancel the sale!

[info]admiralmemo

June 21 2007, 23:09:16 UTC 4 years ago

It's supposed to be on for a week.

[info]dbaxdevilsfan

June 21 2007, 02:36:51 UTC 4 years ago

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Just please, next time, don't leave us in the dark wondering what's going on! :)

[info]mittelfeld

June 21 2007, 02:36:51 UTC 4 years ago

Thanks for this post. I appreciate that you're addressing the concerns that so many users have been voicing since the recent Strikethrough keruffle. (Though, I do wonder why it's taken so long for you to make this post, if there's truly been no change in policy or the TOS?)

That said, I would like to see more clarification of exactly what constitutes a "hate crime" and content created to "plan, encourage or advocate" such things. Go to 20 different countries around the world (not just within North America and Western Europe) and ask them what they think a "hate crime" is, and you'll probably get at least 15 different answers -- each with a different degrees of how much planning, encouragement and/or action is actually required before it officially becomes a criminal activity. Just because someone (or some intolerant preachy religious group like WFI) is horribly offended by a word, idea or philosophy doesn't necessarily make it a "hate crime" to merely think, write and post about it. Where will you be drawing the line?

[info]bixie

June 21 2007, 13:18:54 UTC 4 years ago

I'm guessing (and I am not lj) that because this is in the context of legal enforcement, they'll be using the federal law and the law of the state of...where are they located now? california? washington? references to what's out there in the u.s. are available here.

in general, speech that stands alone as a hate crime is narrowly defined (unlike speech that elevates another crime -- a battery -- into a hate crime by being used in conjunction with the 'primary' criminal act). it usually means use of racial or religious slurs, especially if/when accompanied by threats of or wishes for violence.

[info]mittelfeld

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[info]maidenmorticia

June 21 2007, 02:37:39 UTC 4 years ago

One small question.

Dear Barakb,

Thank you for re-clarifying and slightly expanding on LJ's policy re: illegal content. As a community maintainer, the front line of reporting illegal content to LJ, I would very much appreciate even further expansion. Not all of us are American citizens and therefore we do not know your laws very well. Apparently, neither do a lot of LJers who are Americans, because it's my American community members who have informed me that x or y is illegal in the US -- and if I look it up, I find that it indeed it is!

If you would be so kind as to address point #3 in my open letter to LJ, I know I would appreciate it and my communities would directly benefit from it.

I know you have not addressed the rest of my letter's points, but I realise now that you do not mean to ever get that specific -- as specific as to help us define pedophila, age of consent, etc. in the Internet context. So, let's move on from that... shall we?

Thanks,

xo M.

[info]maxi47

June 21 2007, 02:38:09 UTC 4 years ago

Will you be also including some kind of appeals system, so that people that have been suspended have the right to appeal their suspension? I expect that if this is the case it would have to reflect your internal investigation procedures for suspension in the first place.

It would be helpful for you to post what you will be using as a system to investigate such reports. For transparency, if nothing else.

[info]cathepsut

June 22 2007, 14:38:01 UTC 4 years ago

Second that!

Good ideas all around!

[info]kutsuwamushi

June 21 2007, 02:39:44 UTC 4 years ago

I'm sorry, but this post doesn't do much to answer the questions that I think we want answered.

Are you still going to be interpreting things listed in interests not as just interests, but as things we support? And if so, how do your Terms of Service tell me--let's pretend that as a new customer I'm reading them and am not aware of this latest blow-up--that I shouldn't list "rape" in my interests because I'm a feminist who is interested in talking about it?

How do you define child pornography? How do you decide whether someone is advocating rape versus indulging in fantasy?

There was someone on one of my communities arguing the other day that some things that are legally considered rape are not actually rape and should not be treated as such. Is that against your Terms of Service?

Does my icon advocate animal cruelty?

These are all practical questions that this vague post doesn't answer. Until I feel reassured that this place is somewhere that won't suddenly decide that [whatever] is against the Terms of Service and start suspending journals, I don't think I'll be renewing my paid account.

[info]snarkbite

June 21 2007, 02:46:24 UTC 4 years ago

to address your first example only -- burr86's post a few moments ago clarified the 'interests' question: http://community.livejournal.com/lj_biz/240884.html

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[info]thisdaydreamer

June 21 2007, 02:42:41 UTC 4 years ago

Thank you for this post and thank you, [info]burr86 for your post. I am still mulling over the permanent account, but I am closer to it than I was yesterday, and closer yesterday than I was before that.

The strikethrough mess was scary, but I feel that you really are trying to fix it as best you can after the fact. Also, you are trying to answer everyone's continuing questions in clear and straightforward language. I know you can't answer every question or concern, but you are doing a good job trying.

Yeah, I think I'll get that permanent account. The lengths I would go to for more icon space....

[info]strandist

June 21 2007, 02:45:39 UTC 4 years ago

Does that include communities that encourage civil disobedience? For example, a community of people against the draft and that encourages men of the appropriate age not to register? Or a community or journal that releases a DVD encryption key to defeat DRM tools on DVDs one purchases? Or perhaps a community that encourages its members to attempt to bring 3.01 ounces of fluid past airport security?

If I report one of these, by your new policies, would these community and journals be closed down?

[info]unkickablekitty

June 21 2007, 03:04:38 UTC 4 years ago

Or perhaps a community that encourages its members to attempt to bring 3.01 ounces of fluid past airport security?

That made me giggle. If only there were really communities like that... or are there? *must find this out*

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[info]mdlbear

June 21 2007, 02:46:03 UTC 4 years ago

I think this post and the previous one are a good start. I'll still give you a year or two before I trust you.

"If your profile, taken as a whole, breaks these policies..." is still a loophole big enough to drive a hummer through, as is "...make it easier for the community to report abusive or offensive content." Almost everything is offensive to somebody, somewhere, and the fact that parts of my journal might be offensive to vegans, Republicans, or accordion players shouldn't be any of your business.

For that matter, I advocate and actively encourage gay marriage, which is illegal in all US states but Massachusetts. Does that make my journal eligible for summary suspension? If it does, I may as well leave now and save you the trouble.

[info]unkickablekitty

June 21 2007, 02:51:55 UTC 4 years ago

You bring up a good point with the gay marriage thing. I think we deserve a list of topics that are grounds for journal termination/suspension/whatever.

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...and 69 more comments... from [info]barakb25, [info]sparkofcreation, [info]kateshort… Expand

[info]hoshi3

June 21 2007, 02:46:07 UTC 4 years ago

... This is like a sort of DUH that all communities around the web share.

Seriously, what's been changed? I find it hard to believe that that's all.

[info]barakb25

June 21 2007, 02:54:11 UTC 4 years ago

Thats all.

[info]esprix

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[info]jesurgislac

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[info]thefacelessevil

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